reply to the CY forum regarding the removal of my thread(s)
the issue at hand was the removal of my threads pertaining to an event where sh. hamza yusuf and imam zaid shakir were speaking. i do have one request: after reading it, please refrain from commenting on this particular post. any negative remarks regarding any individual, be it the shyook or the brother im discussing this with, will be deleted immediately. and let it be known, i have no animosity towards anyone, and this brother is well aware of this. i love all for the sake of Allah.
first and foremost, id like to expression my sincerest thanks to shariq for finally replying to me on this matter.
Your reponse was given to you via IM by me last night in the same manner you had approached me when you first addressed your concern (which wasn't specific).
nonsense. i asked "what happened to my thread?" there was nothing vague about that, since i was referring specifically to my thread.
In case you didn't get those im's I will post it here for everyone to see. There are a few organizations that CY will promote and will allow promoted on it's website, message board, and e-mail list. Of the organizations that we WILL promote are:
* Texas Dawah
* Houston Dawah
* Islamic Relief
* Daughters of Adam
* and all exclusive ISGH activities
oh? well then i violated NO rules thus far. if you take a look at the flyer of the event (which you cant, because it was deleted), you will see that the only organizations mentioned on it are MSA and ISGH, both of which are on your list of acceptable organizations. last year MIST was one of the promoters for the Hamza Yusuf and Zaid Shakir event, and a portion of the MIST bow's questions were to be derived from that event, yet all posts related to that event were eventually deleted as well. so here we have 3 organizations which you have on your list supporting or promoting these events, yet all posts related to them were systematically deleted. also, there are numerous advertisements of Al Maghrib on the forum. in fact one of them is by you yourself regarding a scholarship. since Al Maghrib isnt on your list of approved organizations, are you not violating the very rules you came up with?
Furthermore if you refered to rule #10 in the category entitled "RULES OF THE BOARD" (http://www.crescentyouth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116) it read "DO NOT promote any organization on this board that is not in the following link: http://www.crescentyouth.com/listpolicy.htm." Note the past tense.
Since then i have revised the rule to read "Please DO NOT promote any organization on this board that is not in the following link: http://www.crescentyouth.com/listpolicy.htm or without emailing the Moderator (email@example.com)."
in other words, you changed the rules after my post was made, after it was deleted, and after i asked for an explanation? anyways, the link and "endorsement policy" now read like this:
We cannot promote ALL third party events because of server restrictions and because we don't like to flood the inboxes of our subscribers. -We WILL send out
emails from the following organizations FOR SURE:
• Texas Dawah
• Houston Dawah
• Islamic Relief
• MSA-UH (exclusive)
• Daughters of Adam
• and all
exclusive ISGH activities -We will NOT send out third party emails unless it is
a SPECIAL reason and it must have a unanimous vote within the shura. No
once again, i wasnt even in violation of any of these newly concocted rules. i NEVER (yes, i too can use caps for dramatic effects) once asked you to send out emails. theres an enormous difference between sending out emails and posting a thread about a certain events. secondly, the reasons you list for not sending out emails is a desire to not flood inboxes. which is perfectly reasonable and understandable. but your deletion of the thread about the program is not in accordance with the stated reasons on your own link.
Also... so everyone knows... Crescent Youth is not a customer-service organization. This is a volunteer based da'wah organization. If something is deleted, it is deleted because it violates the rules of the board.
i wasnt aware i violated any rules, because i didnt. and when my threads were being deleted, i kindly asked for an explanation.
Now if I or another moderator see something that is in violation we might not
have a chance right then and there to provide a lengthy explanation or ANY sort
so you admit youre a moderator? but you said you werent. are we being forgetful? and please, dont twist my statements. i request for you to please, go, check the archives and tell me where i asked for a "lengthy explanation". you know what, ill save you the time and effort of having to go back and sifting through the piles of deleted threads in the archives. i myself will provide snippets of my past (deleted) threads. from thread 2:
if someone could please explain to me who deleted my thread, and on what grounds.
and from thread 3 (i hope you guys can keep count of the thread numbers):
is it really that difficult for one of the moderators to simply state what was
wrong with the thread?
keyword = simply. "simply" implied that i was looking for a "plain" "easy" or "straightforward" answer. never did i ask for a dissertation paper on why my threadS were deleted. not once. thats wonderful and great. i commend you for running such a tight ship. but again, i wasnt in violation of any of the rules. a moderators job is to make sure rules arent being violated
Alhamdolillah we have lives other than CY just as every other poster on this
message board and sometimes we get wrapped into things. A moderator's job is to
scan the board and see violations and delete them. If the mod has time then he or she will shoot the person an email otherwise they'll do it when they have some free time and sometimes these "explanations" fall through the cracks and we forget.
thats wonderful and great. i commend you for running such a tight ship. but again, i wasnt in violation of any of the rules. a moderators job is to make sure rules arent being violated, not delete threads which arent violating rules. and yes, i know yall have lives other than cy. but in this case, the mod had plenty of time to provide a brief explanation. i mean, if they didnt have time and had other things to do, why would my threadS be deleted on a few hours after they were made? youre saying that the mods are busy and have other stuff to do, yet they had plenty of free time to sit and wait patiently for my threads and then delete them, but not "shoot" me back a reply or email. but yes, sometimes these "explanations fall through the cracks"...3-4 times.
Let's remember to give everyone benefit of the doubt EVEN if they act in a way
that you do not appreciate. Take a step back and look at all options and possibilities instead of gunning for "CY is censoring like the communists".
this statement is paradoxical. im being asked to give someone the benefit of the doubt (which i do, because Islam teaches us to do so. 70 excuses, remember?), yet your CAPLOCKS imply that i am not giving CY the benefit of the doubt. so much for me being given the "benefit of the doubt" by CY. and all "options and possibilities" were pursued, used, and exhausted.
Which brings me to another point. Manners. I don't want to go into manners 101, because im sure that this post in itself lacks some manners. Something simple though... if you have a grievance you goto the person which you have the gripe with. You don't go on a message board and post it in a public forum for the world to see. If you want to criticize you criticize privately and not in front of the entire public. This is simple etiquette.
wow. i dont know whether to laugh or take this post seriously. this statement is the essence of contradiction. you dont "want" to go into manners, yet youre saying that im ill-mannered? fantastic. i always thought i was a well-mannered boy. i guess all the aunties at the family dawat lie to me when they say "mashallah, kitna acha bacha yeh hain." shariq, whyd you have to shatter my paradigm. seriously though, im offended. i have displayed nothing but respect and manners, yet here im being told that i lack manners. sorry. but since youre well mannered and the epitome of perfect character, could you please explain to me how i could better my manners? and if you want, you can continue to openly scold and talk down to me like im a 4 year old toddler. once again you assume and exaggerate what i said. to make it clear, i voiced my support for CY because i believe it is an organization that has done a lot of good for the community, especially the youth, and i never once attacked cy. so for you to claim that i openly criticize is uncalled for. i dont have anything against you or any person on this forum, and you, and those that know me on this forum know that. ask anyone that knows me, i defend CY whenever someone comments against it. and i didnt post anything wrong on the message board, the whole matter at hand pertains to something being posted on a public message board, so it only makes sense to discuss it here. so please, lay off the personal attacks. in islam there is a beautiful way of giving naseeha, and this approach, certainly, goes against the beautiful teachings of islam. see the story of Hussan RA and Hussain RA and how they dealt with the elder man when he wasnt doing wudu correctly. now this is "simple etiquette. and as for making a private matter public, youre one to speak. I recall an ISGH petition circulating througout the whole houston community a few years back (a petition I signed) protesting the quality of the ISGH website. Classic example of handling something in private.
You did not email the admins, you did not call me or the other mod, but insteadi discussed this above.
resorted to posting about it on the message board.
Yes, you did aim me with something very vague and since i am NOT a moderator i
didn't know what you were talking about.
it was not vague. you knew what i was talking about, especially after 3 threads were deleted. and that in that AIM convo we didnt discuss anything of substance relating to this matter. you mentioned that you were being quirky and you stated how it was in your personality to divert the topic. now since that was a private convo, i will not go into any other details because that would not be right of me to do so. but just to be clear, VERY little of this was discussed on AIM. and how can you not be a moderator when earlier in this post (see above) you stated "now if i or another moderator" (not "i or a moderator) implying that you are a moderator. freudian slip?
I did tell you to give me a call so we could talk about it and so i could figure out what had been moderated but you didn't. You didn't even email about it even though i expressed that i had no clue of what you were talking about. There are tons of posts on this message board and many have to be moderated very quickly. Alhamdolillah we have a wonderful team of moderators and i believe they all act in accordance with the rules. If you have a gripe or complaint let's act civil and in accordance to proper adab.
again, i have been especially kind and ive approached this matter in the nicest way possible, so why are you making these personal attacks and assumptions? am i not acting in a civil manner? is my adab incorrect? is it unislamic? perhaps you can teach me, because an unmannered person like myself can only be taught by a well-mannered person of your status. in this thread you seem to constantly berate me, but tell me, is this being "civil" and acting in "accordance to proper adab?"
This is also why your last two anti-cy strings were removed. Why all the negativity?why are you accusing me of being negative? search through your archives (archives sounds like a lot) and tell me where have i been hostile? if anything, ive shown the utmost respect, "civilty," and "adab" - all of which you claim i lack. so i think its inherently clear whos being negative.
If you have a super-gripe shouldn't you address it with memebers of the shura? You even know me personally... but did you send me an email? And this is towards all the other guys who posted in the same string with negative comments.
lol, youve used the word gripe atleast 4-5 times in the post up to this point. was it the merriam-webster email word of the day? or are you just very fond of it. anyway, why would i send you an email when i mentioned it to you via aim, and made 4 threads which voiced my requests, which were deleted by yall. if it was deleted all 3 or 4 times (i lose count) then obviously yall saw it and read its contents. and please, if you could, list the people in this shura so we actually know who to talk to? they arent available on your website. or atleast i couldnt find a list when i searched for one.
It is NOT proper to criticize someone or an organization like that in public WITHOUT first addressing the issue with the target of the criticism. This is BASIC etiquette.
umm, what? you seem to be blowing this out of proportion, not me. calm down a little, bro, i didnt seek out a "target" to criticize. it seems as if your paranoia is leading you to change and twist the words i said. you act as if i maliciously maligned you and cy, when i only asked why my thread was deleted. again, i request for you to search the archives of deleted threads and show how i blatanly targetted CY. keep in mind, i have nothing against the organization, and you yourself know that i have helped with events, and you have on occassion personally asked me to do so.
Let's take things to another level. Say for instance that a noob comes on this message board (we get 150-200 unique hits a day to the message board) and reads your post.
congratulations, but isn’t calling someone a “noob” rather disrespectiful and condescending in itself?
What if the person thinks that CY is run by narrow-minded, unmannerly, and ultra-conservative fools?
then that person is a fool himself for letting one incident shape his view of an organization. but also, you yourself have mentioned that CY only promotes a select group of organizations’ events (again i mention that they themselves supported the hamza yusuf-zaid shakir event). im not saying anything, but by your statement of admission, you imply that those are organizations not your list of acceptable organizations are deemed “unacceptable.” So one may argue, and before you take this out of context, keep in mind that I stress the word “may”, that CY might just be “narrow-minded.” as for CY being unmannerly, please, for the love of God, don’t speak such blasphemy. how can CY be “unmannerly” when clearly i am the ill-mannered and brute individual lacking the very “adab, manners, and etiquette” all muslims are required to possess by faith. no no no, please don’t be so harsh on yourself, you don’t give yourself enough credit. CY serves as a superb model in all aspects, and from now i will look to that model in order to learn some manners.
I woudl like to think this isn't the case BUT if the person were to read the type of stuff you and the two other guys wrote... then do you think there would be a slight possibility of them thinking this?
see above. but before you do that, why would you attribute what 2 other people are saying to me? i don’t speak for them, and they don’t speak for me. and i don’t even know which “two other guys” youre talking about because those were removed for being too “critical.” they have their thoughts. i have mine. so please don’t read the replies of others as being my own. and read the “type of stuff I wrote?” please don’t tell me you are being serious. Not ONCE did post anything negative or critical of CY. If you or the readers dont believe me, then again, for the 97th time, i cordially invite you to dig through the archive of deleted and censored threads, and produce some sort of evidence from my posts supporting this contemptible claim. i cant, in no way possibly shape the mindset of others. only the organization can do such a thing. and if anything, if they possess one iota of common sense or intelligence, they wont see my threads as a reason to, as you claim, turn away from cy. but rather they might notice the unexplained and consistent deletion of my threads as a reason to do so.
You think they would come to any of our activities then?
why are you making this an “us vs. them” ordeal. see above.
Do you think that perhaps they would go around and maybe spread this idea to
the irony. the irony. oh wait i mentioned that already. i think the potential ramifications of this matter are being blow out of proportion. people are forgetful, and theyll just as soon forget that this happened. but as i mentioned above, it
would be rather foolish of them to do such a thing.
So to sum up:
1. You did not contact me about anything specific. Just a complaint. If it was of
genuine concern at the time you would have followed up with me but you didn't.
2. All the mods have other things to do as well and sometimes things fall through the
3. Please read the rules. Maybe another incident can be avoided in the future.
4. Let's remember manners and how to address concerns properly.
5. Let's remember to give others benefit of the doubt even if they did something that's so unappreciated.
6. If you feel you are wronged ADDRESS the concern individually with a member ofthe shura.
1.yes i did. more than once. see above.
2. they might have other things to do, but in this case they somehow had enough time to delete my threads 4 times without a “simple” explanation. and granted sometimes people do get busy, but again something that has been dominated the board for quite a few days "falling through the cracks” is rather laughable.See above.
3.inshallah. this reminds of me gradeschool when the teacher used to yell at me for breaking the rules and then taking away my recess time. man how i hated that. it just killed me to see my other friends playing teatherball (sp?)while i sat all alone against the brick wall :(. only difference here is that I followed the rules. See above.
4.sorry for my lack of manners. since you are infallible, i will turn to you and seek lessons from your highness. again, see above.
5. a paradox. you ask for me to give benefit of the doubt when clearly here you are not giving it to me. see above.
6. again, who is on the shura? See above.
I am sorry that you have had such a bad experience with one of your strings being removed a couple of times from the message board without explaination. I hope insha'Allah that something like this will be avoided in the future.
i had no such thing. i enjoy posting here on cy, even if sometimes my threads vanish into the twilight zone.
I've only responded to this publicly because of your insistence to lambash CY and it's moderators in public and also because so many people have read your post.
lambash? lollll. what in the name of something unsacred are you talking about? are you making up whatever comes into your mouth and saying it? again, go through your archives of deleted threads and produce one instance where i was disrespectful or where i “lambashed” anyone. if anything, i was a hundred times more kind and respectful than you were. my approach was one devoid of personal attacks.
and one more thing, is “lambash” a word that you made up? because its not even a word. i believe the correct term you were looking for was “lambaste.”
If I have said anything to insult you or anyone else then i ask for your forgiveness.
yes, insult then seek apology. even though i have been ridiculed, i forgive you for speaking to me in such a harsh and stern manner, because, after all, it is in my religion to so do.
In conclusion, id like to say that this is all tired and redundant rhetoric. rather than addressing the matter at hand, you resorted to making a lengthy post in which large and sometimes made-up words blanket very moot points. perhaps the only positive thing in your reply though was to point out that i lacked sufficient manners, but inshallah, your extremely holier than thou attitude will serve as a model for me and all others, including the youth of houston, as one to be emulated. please, let me take a hold of the reigns of your horse (high) so everywhere you go i can follow, and hopefully learn from the best. And while doing so, maybe you can explain to me why my threads were deleted
and Allah Almighty knows best.
masalama, your brother in islam